Skip to content

Welcome

I started this blog because I needed a proximal row carpectomy and I could not find any further information other than how the operation is performed and statistical results of the operation. I had many questions that were left unanswered. For example, how much pain will I have during the operation, after the operation and how long will it take to heal? When could I start using my hand and more importantly my fingers? Would I be able to ride my motorcycle again? And if yes how soon?

I searched blogs, Bing and Google and could not find any answers to these questions. Of course I could find out what was involved in the operation and during operation including all those gory videos intended for surgeons and horror movie fans. So I decided to start a blog to log events and I urge anyone else who has had a proximal row carpectomy to add their comments or ask their questions to this blog so that it may help others. Additionally please share your experiences as well!

There may be some grammar errors since I’m using Dragon Naturally Speaking software to dictate the entries rather than typing. I hope to catch most of them.

484 Comments
  1. Samuel Antley permalink

    Interesting post Don. One thing that stood out was your commit “build a wrist ” and that is what we are doing. We can “Heal” from the trauma of a Dr basically tearing out half the bones of your wrist with a pair of needle nose pliers. ( Sure you have watched videos of a PRC surgery.) Most of that can heal, but bones rubbing together that weren’t meant to be in contact can’t fit the definition of heal. We can only help them cope the best we can. The wrist will never be like it originally was. It will work, just not the same.

    As for the size and shape of the wrist I took a close study. I cannot tell that it is any wider or shorter. The thing that makes my PRC wrist different is the thumb comes out of the hand at a noticeably different angle. Besides the thumb angle the complete hand seems to be maybe 4-5 degrees tilted in the direction of the little finger. What is really nice is I can now button the sleeve on a long sleeve shirt. My wrist has been swollen too much for me to do that for years.

  2. Don Marius1 permalink

    Have some question. I do ask in stepts because, I am on them.

    Length – its compromised 0.8mm-1cmm (proximal row)
    but waiting the surgery got my width of the palm and muscles in there atrophied and smaller.
    Now it’s width its bigger but not equal to my normal hand.
    1. Does your width of the PRC hand is same as the normal hand?

    2.Can you fight with that PRC fist? or can you hit boxing bag? (intersting this one)
    i beliv you can’t but i would like to know if that has happend or have been tried

    3. Did you ever fall in that PRC hand, if yes, how n what happend?

    note: paul said his hand feels totally better when he respects his body, no alchool and good alimentation and thats logic.
    It’s a MUST staying healthy & strong, + workin that joint out for the entire life, lets see the known limits.

    I may do some research for my license as kinetoteraput on this.

  3. Don Marius1 permalink

    Samuel, I get what you meant now.
    I hope someday my PRC hand will be strong enough and recovered so well that I could actually use it proper in adjustable activities, without feeling pain or inflamation after.
    I use supplements with key nutrition factors for a long run overall rehab, but i dont plan on taking drugs for inflamation and stuff like that, because I think the body has it’s own way to heal things.
    It s pretty hard to maintain within the limits if u have responsabilities or hobbys but ill try so.
    One of my hobby was training at the bar. Now Im condamned to do adapted exercises for getting in a new shape. So that I can practice back what i was doing, without worrying I cant fall in different ways.
    I really beliv i will achive such form through hard work but in time.
    Im still young and have a lot of life ahead and still 4 months post op and cant jump to conclusion.

    I can say this for sure. Until you get an arthosis. With progresive training and specific exercises, you can get a strong hand. The only thing you have to keep in mind is that adaption is needed.
    Every prc is different and bends different and that means every adaption is unique, based on less flexion and radial deviation from the start. ( due to the importance of scaphoid and lunate)

    Things have to be grabbed different, pressure put different angles, and in fact its not different from the normal hand , its actually less positions than before, :(((( and in those postion you actually develop new strong grip. you have to work it out a lot baby. Stuff like phisyotherapy but without stopping.
    It will take you somewhere in time, guaranteed.

    And to actually help the procces, body work a lot, now he neeeds help. – nutrition-sleep-exercise

    along with Supplements ofc., all kinda of, take the best for your type of lifestyle.
    Animal flex- is for someone who is active, its good enforcerer. 2 times year – 3times

    vitamins, minerals, etc, best from aliments.

    In a long run- it may help you build a wrist able to sustain a limited series of activities without having needed pain medication.

    My background is as an extreme sport athlete and im in phisyotherapy school.
    All my life forced my body to it s limits, kinda say so.

  4. Don Marius1 permalink

    Sorry 4 all the posts. I was writing on the telephone while walking.
    3,5 months since carpectomy. Samuel, I was here last time 2 weeks ago. Man, I can say im much better in such short time. Not huge, but the atrophy starts to go away. I said i had callus bone between the spaces inside the joint. That cleaned up pretty much, as Peter s thumb issue is gone (help with vitamin K2) I do 3 session/week kinetoterapy+physio for about 3 hours(strenght,grip,stretch,massage,mobilizations) and 2times/week lifting small weights for redeveloping arm muscle. In the days I train, I allways feel it a lil bit sore after, but nuthing really bad. Next day is ready for another round. Ofc I need rest and food. Im in constant major progress, and i dont want to stop.

    Im sure ill be much better in time.
    The key is staying healthy and strong.

  5. Sam permalink

    What is everyone using as daily maintenance drugs. I take Meloxicam 15 MG daily. It really makes a difference as I can tell when I don’t take it for a couple days. Also using Aleve when doing heavy labor. Anyone using a joint supplements that work? That is kind of a funny question because I think a large percentage of a drugs benefits are just thinking they work.

    • Donmarius1 permalink

      Daily maintanance is maximum needed 1 month. In terms or drugs.
      After inflamation is gone, massaje with pressure shower hot cold. It helps the reumatic condition.

    • Donmarius1 permalink

      Yes. Vit c and zinc after surgery.
      Animal flex – most hardcore. Its for body builders but works fine on anyone.
      Good nutrition plus cardio to enchance overall state.
      Heavy work maybe after 6 8 months if u train hard.
      Adaptation is the key, since it doesnt bend correct.

    • Donmarius1 permalink

      But i never stress my wrist so that i would need deugs for pain. I maintain wothin the limit and let it heal to become eventually stronger.

      • Samuel Antley permalink

        Don I wasn’t speaking of pain management but more of keeping arthritis and inflammation at bay. With an old break and a joint not being used at it was ment to you are going to have inflammation. My take is to attempt to control it before it needs stronger intervention. Kind of stay ahead of the curve. Like if I’m going to take the motercycle out for a long ride take something before I leave.

        Don what is your background? You speak of things I know little about. Have me googling a lot. Not a bad thing i find it very interesting.

    • Donmarius1 permalink

      Theres a lot of supplements. For overall in 1 is animal flex. Its 44 bags each 10 pils. It s kinda huge but theyreally work , see a review on youtube. Also add vit c 2 3 l waters sleep etc.
      The way i see it. It takes years for the adaption to be complete. That means to take care over the body so that proceses inside the body works faster and better.
      It s like dissamble the wrist then put it back in a different way.

  6. Mandy Miles permalink

    Hey everyone, I hope everyone is healing well, I’m in the uk and had PRC two weeks ago along with a thumb fusion. My question is whilst in a cast did your wrist still feel abit ‘clicky’ like a tad unstable? It’s concerning me a little.

    All the best.

    • I actually had an MRI performed months after and they found tiny little bone fragments and they said that my system would absorb them over time. I guess they were absorbed because I have no more clicking.

      • Donmarius1 permalink

        My forearm muscles were atrohpied. I had a stick instead of a hand. It felt so fragile. Its ok. In 3 months and when pumped and heated. It feels normal. In time it really gets surprsingly better. I swear it.

    • Samuel Antley permalink

      What do you mean “Clicky”? My wrist raddled for some time after the cast was off. Took time for everything to tighten back up. About 8mm of bones are gone. Things will feel funny for awhile. How much can you move in the cast with a fusion?

  7. Don Marius1 permalink

    You said it so well Samuel. It sounds like you have a strong PRC, I used to train with the weight of my body, not really gym guy. As for the push ups, I have been thinking the same way to do them. It seems training counts in this one. It makes me happy to think now its possible. Ill share my progress soon.

  8. Don Marius1 permalink

    I have a question guys. What is your limit lifting up things with the PRC hand? (in kilos) im reffering thoose who passed 1 year. Im intersting known about how my limitations will go.

    And 2nd question is, if u can actually put pressure in the PRC wrist over 1 year, im reffering fist staying like pushups, if its possible or if it s not indicated or if it feels not good after.
    To me it seems possible, but i still have to develop muscles.

    (Im 3 months postop, been athrophied whole arm, but before i had big muscles and muscles have memory. I do exercises with 1kg / 1.5 kg, biceps wrist triceps, series Its the best i can do without hurting my wrist after. It s like theres no limit to recovery but its slow process. I do whatever i can 4-5 Phisiotherapy per week) since 2 months. I found it usefully, but guys im not joking when i say i stay 3 hours there per session. Ill build the video and show u what type of exeercises works out for non-mobility wrists.

    Please share information, we could all use it!

    • The less you lift or the less pressure the happier your wrist. I can lift 40- 60 Lbs but over that will result in finger swelling for a few days. Push ups are not comfortable for me.

      • Don Marius1 permalink

        Peter, 60 lbs means 20- 27 kilograms. Thats not less so you know. Its pretty good actually.
        Im 26years old and I was into gymnastics and a lot of exercises at the BAR. Like all type of pullups and abs hanging on the bar etc. and pushups ofc. All of them i did 1-2 hours per day and I had a great athlete phisique.(cuz i also do extreme sport). Now with the PRC wrist, I can still practice my skateboarding, but i must be so carefully not to ever land on left, and its possibile but i get limited, because i skateboarded for 4 years with a SNAC (scaph non union) WRIST. Now i cant do my calesthenic exercises, because not enough grip strentgh. I lost a lot of mass and I almost got into depression. Waiting for the surgery and finding a doctor toook me 4-5 months, time where my whole left arm became a stick. Getting back now It s really hard but i will. Ill build a video with all exercises I do.
        Sometimes were too young or only not prepared 4 what life has 4 us.
        This type of problems sucks even more when you have active lifestyle. Im just curious how far can I get. as for others too. Im in kinetotherapy actually myself.
        My surgeon told me patience and adapt things. Ive read all of this. My PRC isnt the greatest. Even though with proper training no one knows where well ever get.

        We need to share experiences!

      • Samuel Antley permalink

        Don, I think everyone’s PRC is a little different. We are each trying to make a joint from bones that are not supposed to be in there current arrangement. As for me at 55 years and a farmer I don’t do any measured lifts in a gym anymore. We are taking the flooring out of a barn now and I’m shifting around 120 Kilo sheets of steel and carrying one end with my PRC while someone takes the other end. Doing this all day without any problems with the wrist. Problems are with just having an older body in general. Pull-ups are not a problem Push-ups are different because of ROM. I can just go to my fingertips at the top. Better on the knuckles. Not that I can do a lot either anymore. Can’t say I got there working through the pain. More that you just do what you have to to get the work done.

  9. Samuel Antley permalink

    Don, How much ROM do you have? Sounds like you have had a rough go at it. Hope you still making progress.

    • Don Marius1 permalink

      A rough go at it is the definiton Samuel. It s about 20 grades maximum and its between Extension and a straight palm. I have no Flexion and no radial deviation. But its better as before because it does not hurt anymore.

  10. Don Marius1 permalink

    Hello Carpectomists! (fresh news, fresh info, other complications)

    I have posts upper in the forum. Had the whole proximal row 3 months ago.
    My whole row was a mess due to old Scaphoid non-union and lunate dislocation and triquetral fracture, all of them neglected for about 4 years.

    When surgeon pulled out the 3 bones, he let some tiny fragments wich was dangerous to pull out.
    I took pills for bone resortption but did not work out that well. While i was in cast, they got calcified and grew bone between the bones where it shouldva been spaces.

    https://ibb.co/dP8ate

    There was a guy who said upper in the forum, he grew back bones, but what it was actually was this^^.

    I went to surgeon again, cause my range of motion was minimum, extension good, flexion 0 and ulnar deviation little.
    He did an anesteshic and basically forced my wrist until the calcification did like POPS and the structure got a little more space now. It was pretty painfull. After this it seems phisiotherapy work better but still not a full great ROM.
    (so this type of complication) can be dangerous and incovinient. )
    I hope and think in next months will be a little better, but ROM is pretty much lost.

    As far as grip strength goes, well its better and better, the problem is that i had waited long for this surgery and my hand got muscle atrophy in that time and made my comeback harder.
    Im actually doing everyday training and eating good. My goal is to do PULLUPS( hope in 1 year)
    The pushups are compromised because lack of extenstion, but theres no limit to regaining stretngh and once the wrist has found its balance, u can adapt.

    For thoose who make this type of surgery, they need to be patient, to endure everyday little pains and in few months youll be most of the time painfree, watchout for not overdoing it.
    The hand feels actually normal after some time, but keep in mind this is not reconstruction surgery, it will changeh the way you do things.
    Ill build a video with exercises in next 2 months, like paul did.
    Im 26 yr old.

  11. Don Marius1 permalink

    Does anyone see m1 posts?

  12. Samuel Antley permalink

    @ Ken. I can understand the constant pain for extended time. I went 20 years, it was so liberating when the pain went away. I was amazed how much brain energy I was using to block out the pain 24 hours a day. It is much better to use that part of the brain to enjoy life instead. I do not know your condition but after two years I would think the PRC is not going to work. (That’s only my thoughts.) Fusion might be the next step. From what I have read that the fusion stops the pain and you still can function and do most anything you want. Good luck Ken.

  13. Ken Stone permalink

    I had keinbocks and lived with wrist pain from 17- 40 yrs old. Had PRC almost 2 yrs ago, I am in more constant pain now than before. Rom is absent at this point. I’m going to check into fusion, just tired of being in pain everyday.

  14. I have calcifications that interfere with my movement. Did any one had that?
    it s like tiny fragments left from the scphoid that was dangerous to pull out, meant more damage in the surgery and i took pills for bone absorption.
    im 3 weeks off cast and it was blocked at first, now its moving lil bit between all 4 movements.
    Surgeon said to force its way and see again in 1 month. Move it until it moves….

  15. Samuel Antley permalink

    Before the PRC I had a CT release for a full block on the thumb. I think that was more painful that the PRC. Pain like when your arm wakes up from being asleep. Lasted several days. At first I did not understand why he prescribed such a large bottle of pain pills. During the surgery he relocated a tenant from the elbow to the thumb. Not sure what it is called. Anyone had this done? I am having muscle spasms that pull my thumb in a strange direction.

    • Hi Samuel. wtf, i dont understand exactly. But I had prc, and i posted before. The indication was not to do ct realese, let it heal on its own. And it did. They reelocated a tendon extensor of the thumb to dont get stick with the surgery. and that was it. im 1 week of cast, its ok, but fragile.

  16. DonMarius permalink

    https://streamable.com/8orbo – prc hand after cast out , 1.5 months p-op
    https://ibb.co/etVQOz
    https://ibb.co/coj8bK

    Take a look. 1.5 months prc, first day without cast.
    Fingers work fine, i can do easy activities. Got 0 mobility, but i had 0 mobility 3 months before surgery due to my condition. Bones fragments were blocking the wrist. Ill keep posted.
    If u prc go with the greatest surgeons who are specialized. Kiss yall. My goal is pullups.

  17. That’s why I choose it 🙂

    • I WANNA UPDATE MY PRC. 1,5 month casted splinted. Just went to my first kt session. No pain at all, fingers almost full mobility. Wrist mobility maybe 2grades. But its the first day, never wrok my wrist before this. No pain at the base of the thumb and carpal tunnel syndrome seems healing natural, no decompression needed anymore. I had great surgeon, made it look good. Ill post pictures theese days.

  18. michelle L permalink

    Hello, I am 3.5 months post op from a prc due to a dead scaphoid. I had an original surgery after scaphoid failed to heal. 2nd surgery was to remove screw from first surgery that had backed out. Even with bone graft, scaphoid failed to heal, and after steroid shot that lasted 3 weeks instead of 3 months, surgeon finally ‘called it’ and said it was time for ‘salvage operation’.
    I am 52 years old and have osteoporosis (discovered AFTER about 17 breaks in 4 years). Let’s just say I’ve had to learn to live with pain, but like the dirt bike racer that commented above, I REFUSE to stop living my life. Surgeon suggested PRC because of the faster healing time, and my YEARS of dealing with breaks and having my activities limited.
    The good news… Back on my bike riding 60-80 miles per week (e-bike because I MUST make accommodations for my ‘new normal’). The wrist is painful after a ride, but so is my shattered elbow (2 plates, 14 screws), recovering broken Pelvis and undiagnosed tibial plateau compression fracture.
    I want to tell you this… Yes, I have a high pain tolerance… but I have a BETTER attitude tolerance (because I have to, not because I want to!)
    With the left elbow, I have numb fingers on my left hand (non-dominant) and PRC on right wrist. It hurts, but pain won’t kill me. I can play with my grandson, ride my bike, go to water aerobics, cook and sew.
    My hands don’t work right. Sometimes things just go flying out of them- I can’t open a jar to save my life, and feeding that grandson is quite the messy endeavor because my PRC wrist no longer bends the right way…BUT.. he doesn’t mind if it’s messy, and if I drop things, they may break, or make a mess, but it won’t kill me. I’m glad I chose the PRC because it meant I could be back on my bike at 8 weeks post op. It didn’t feel good physically, but it saved my life emotionally. Good luck!

    • Damn lady. I hope you wont break anything new.

      • Samuel Antley permalink

        Michelle you rock! Problems with the body not going to slow you down. Live life like someone left the gate open. (City folk might not understand that) Means when your stretched out on the mortician’s table you don’t look all pristine and asleep. Better to be all scared and beat up. So someone will say, “Damn, that must of been some ride/life”.

  19. donMarius permalink

    When did you actually start moving the wrist and the reabilitation process? I am currently 2weeks splinted + 2 weeks in an oldschool shorter cast,where i can move my fingers, but cannot move the wrist. I have to stay 2 more weeks like this. In totally 2weeks +4 weeks and then reabilitation at the wrist level starts. Thats what my surgeon said, it s safer, and by the way the cast cannot be taken out. Im afraid imm gonna be so stiff. So when did yall start?

    • Joann permalink

      DonMarius, I had my PRC done 5 years ago. I had a dead bone that was falling apart. I was in a splint after surgery for 2 weeks and then in a hard cast for 3 weeks. Then I started therapy. I will not lie to you… it was very painful at first. It took a long time to get my fingers to work. I work a long time to be able to type on the computer. I also did 2 rounds of therapy. Give yourself time .. its a slow process.

      • Joan. I got fingers fine, trained them in that 3 weeks period. Wrist starts moving 2 graades but i got no pain at all. Im like 3 months average post operator but im actually just1,5 months. So my rehab is easier than most of theese posts. Im lucky. 26 yr don marius

  20. Brian Hawks permalink

    I’m having this surgery done in the next 5 days . I have no movement in my right wrist and a dead scaphoid bone that is snapped in two.. I’m nervous about it.. What type of pain meds would you normally get for this type of surgery..
    I’m not really good with pain .. My wrist stays swollen all the time I can’t even hold a coffee cup now..

    • Samuel Antley permalink

      Coffee is important you have to get that wrist fixed. lol. I lived on Hydrocod/Acetam before my surgery to the point of getting multiple prescriptions of different doctors so I could take more. That was just so I could keep working. (I’m a 24/7 Farmer). After the surgery when they got the dead scaphoid out the pain just went away. That is when held mobile and stationary in the cast. It is going to be sore and hurt when you start using it again but that deep pain that can’t be stopped should go away. Good luck to you I’ll be thinking about you. It will get better Brian.

      • Shawn permalink

        I didn’t use any pain meds following the carpectomy surgery. Having had a neck fusion and lower spinal fusion I’ve used Percocet. Percocet is more of a high and reduces pain while able to be conscious for the most part. Vicodin is more inclined to knock you out.

    • donMarius permalink

      Hi Brian. My wrist was similar before, I endured pre operation pain without meds and without using the arm at all. After operation it will hurt, another 2 weeks and in this time it decreases.
      Ketonal liquid is the hardest i know. And whatever they may prescribed. After 3 weeks the pain will go away and you will feel released. It will hurt on the reabilitation process.. Personally i did meds for 1 week, ur body gets used to them. Im now almost 1 month and its great, i can do stuff with my fingers, the wrist is still in a cast. Dont be scared when theyill move ur wrist day 1 after the surgery and yea…the pain in that moment, i think thats the most ugly part:))

    • If you have no movement at all for a long time, the reabilitation at the wrist level will hurt, but the pain you have right now will fly away. Finger will work fine after 2 weeks when the realesed although they need to work out.

  21. Don Marius permalink

    Have you tried prolotherapy? My goal is that some day i can stretch it for push ups and build up muscle to resist a nice fall and i also want to do pull ups. If My doctor said avoid pushups , straight hits and anything like that. So first ill have to increAse forearm strength as much as i can, after the cast is out.

    Try hot-cold therapy, as hot as u can resist then switch showering the whole forearm and hand with cold water 45 sec/45sec 3 reps. u can do it for the whole body also. This should give your hand nice refresh after training or a good wake up start. The ideea is to keep the blood flowing as much as we can, of course blood is pumped by heart, if the heart is strong, it will be a lot better. So try do 30-60 minutes intense cardio like byclce or running and one of my favourite is jumping rope like boxeours ( it give good circulation in forearm plus a lil of range of motion). Supplements and veggetables. Dont start any activity without good warmups, yeah the whole body.

    And in the end it s like you said, there is no limit. Most of us don t even train properly and without one hand i know the feeling. So do not forget the rest of the body cause it gives super help to the hand.

    other ideeas is take 1/2/3/4/5..kg and train from 20-100 reps in each logic biomechanic arm movments. get good shoulders triceps biceps and most important forearm. it will help wrist a looooot.
    It will transform muscles into really quality fibers. and ur not puttin much pressure on it with that weight, do it daily, it may take 30min to 60 but it will be good result.

    I gave 12 yrs of sport and extreme sport and good nutrition so im all fyber muscle builded and it rlly helps me, now with this new condition im sure ill get exactly where i want. Even if i end up destroying my cartilage, i would probably wont feel it until it s gone. Or maybe it will resist for a 10-15 years

    So if u wannna be happy with yourselfs, you really need to push it other ways as youre saving ur hand and if it turns out to be a fusion in time, at least you ll be happy cause u did all u couldve done…
    I wont live like , ok i need to protect my hand and dont do nothing. Be realistic and optimistic.
    Protect it , put it through hell and shell be back, add mass and fyber, stretchin, hot cold, rest, massage, good cardio, ;))

    Im a kinetotherapeut and i have some ideas, im young and it may be a difference but dont be disscouraged, stick to the plan. Ill have montioring my getback plan and i will tell you guys for sure how i did it, how i fell and what i can do for real in the next months.

    Keep in touch and keep moving,dadon

  22. Don Marius permalink

    hELLLo carpectomists.

    Im back again, 17th day post-op. Process of recovering fingers motion.
    I said i had atrophy since 4 months before surgery and even couldnt move my fingers cause i was in pain… First 2 weeks post-op I can say I was in pain, but now its feels really good. My expectation for range of motion is that its gonna recover slowly at the wrist level, when they got my cast out it was really stiff due to long time atrophy.
    In 3 days with finger stucked I can 80% make a fist and finger straight( yeah i did some tricks like elastic bands and all day moving stretching ) but a person who enters in surgery with decent range of motion and muscles I can guarantee you he is gonna be way faster than me.
    The only pain that remains is the pain from stretching tendons and the pain as wrist readjust and its bearable.

    Like i said, for now my wrist is fuckin stiff and i still have to wear splint for 3 more weeks and the weak condition ive had before, im a worst case scenario.

    Ill post pictures next month.

    (dont be discouraged by this type of surgery, if u need it, u need it and it s not that horror)

    keep u newbies and oldies updated

    • Samuel Antley permalink

      Don, that sounds freaking allsum! Keep it up. Sometimes I think we get back what we except in our mind. If you expect it to be painful and weak, your brain isn’t going to let you down. If the wrist is mechanically sound there is not a limit to the recovery. I have been using a two pound hammer lately. Not very good with it anymore because the whole arm really has not done anything like that in over 25 years. No pain however even the next day! Couldn’t do it for very long, had to get a guard for the chisel so I don’t hit my other hand (again lol). I don’t think I have a special case. If the bones are sound the new joint will work. Can’t say for how long but I’m not slowing down.

      Good luck
      Sam

  23. Lisa permalink

    Hi! I had my PRC I believe it was 2014, I’m not even sure anymore. My experience has been great, sometimes it does get sore & I’ll immobilize it for awhile. After surgery, i had a brace that was made by molding it to my wrist/hand & I use that. Also, before bad storms it will get sore but overall, I’m very happy with full use of my hand & wrist. I’d much rather immobilize it for a few days than have a fusion any day. I would think that you too will get there! Good luck!

  24. Samuel Antley permalink

    Don, My wrist was similar to yours except about 20 years older.The lunate had fell out of position and was below the wrist. I basically was using a self made PRC joint before the surgery. With the tenants and everything adjusted before surgery my recovery was measured in weeks. With the pain from the displaced bones gone I can do anything. Hope you have the same results. I now can even fire my pistol using different hand positions. Long motorcycle rides in the dirt with throttle control is wonderful. I have seen people trying to ride on the road with a fusion. Don’t think the shoulder and elbow thing would work off road very well. If things go bad in years to come I still have the fusion option.

  25. Don Marius permalink

    fracture luxation trans scafo peri lunate =

    scaphoid non union(fractured in 2 pieces) from 4 years.
    next bone is lunate wich was totally displaced in palmar section pushin in my flexor tendons and also in my median nerve
    triquetral is the next bone after lunate wich was also fractured in 2 pieces

    basically lunate did not had support from his sides and went frontal or palmar just from a simple palm extension.

    also radio scaphoid arthosis

    bad condition but didnt felt pain in 4 years while i was training.. six months ago my wrist just felt moved, instable and soon couldnt moved it at all without pain. it was getting only worse,,,

    typing with one hand,,,,if u have more question ill be happy to answer.

    people need hope
    my occupation: good skater, athleete and kinetotherapy student

    • Paul Dobbin permalink

      Don,
      I had a similar hand injury and my surgeon talked me out of the PRC, because he said i would have to limited use for my active life style. (I was still building my new home in the mountains and restoring antique cars as a hobby) He recommended a total wrist fusion. I opted for the 4-corner fusion. Works pretty well be hammers and torque wrenches are now obsolete. I should have listened now that 3 years later I’m still to restricted. The doctor told me he did a full fusion on a orthopedic surgeon and the guy does heavy orthopedic sawing an cutting daily. (Hind-sight is always 20/20)

      • Don Marius permalink

        I wouldve preffered 4corner. But didnt worked for me. Bad lunate condition. Capitat was already in lunate position, almost touching radius. PRC was calling itself. Surgeon took decision while surgery(very good one).
        Full fusion is my last option because its lack of mobility. Changing my lifestyle for a while and check how this prc can do. After all its Gods plan.
        P.s..- yes u can do activity with full fusion, but you can also not do a lot of them properly

        win-win situations, keep in touch

      • Don marius permalink

        And One more thing, my guess is that ppls just hurry to get back. Give it a full year FOR the reconvery process. I know Not All of uș ca-n have this luxury, Buț thats the ideea. Anatomy changed, body readjust hisself. Ive seen YouTube Videos and best PRC recovery is after 2 3 years.

  26. Don marius permalink

    Hello guys. Im 26 . Did prc 3 days ago. Ive hâd fracture scaphoid nonunion and triqueyral plus semilunar palmar pure luxațion. Prc was my only option. Ill Keep posting after my wires out. It is a painfully proces Buț bearable. Get help 100% from familiy FOR A-T least 3 months. Im also curios about how the proces will work. 4 All new guys take it easy🌈 ill Show u improvment and real proces of another maniac….me

    • Samuel Antley permalink

      Don, Good luck and hope all goes well. What is ” triqueyral plus semilunar palmar pure luxațion ” in normal english? Also, what did you mean buy “after my wires out”?

      Sam
      Of the three less bones club

      • it means the 14 days post op meeting with surgeon to get your wires out from the scar. It s still to early to pronounce myself about the general pain and movement.(3rd day).

    • Stephen Woodward permalink

      Hi there had my prc 12 months ago brilliant don’t even think of my wrist anymore long as I don’t do heavy hammering good luck pal.

      • Shari Bailey permalink

        Thank you for the encouraging words.

  27. Joyce Waldron permalink

    I’m just out of my hard cast and need physical therapy before I’ll get Any relief but I’m moving what I can. Wrist tells me no no no if I try a movement I shouldn’t. How was your physical therapy?

    • Shari Bailey permalink

      6 weeks out from PRC and in my first week of therapy and it’s painful. Although not near the pain I had when the nerve block wore off the night of surgery!

  28. Barbara Lamb permalink

    I am 16 days post prc and got my hard cast
    Which I swear making pain worse because I can move a little more. When does it stop hurting????

    • It took me a long time. I recorded my progress for the first year. Pain gone now

      • debbie green permalink

        I had my PRC many years ago, 2012, but after reading your post I remembered how horrible the cast felt! I had to have it changed twice! At first it was too long and I could not bend at the elbow. It dug into my skin until it was raw. Then it was too tight- it squeezed my swollen wrist until it throbbed and I couldn’t get comfortable. It didn’t help that it was during the steamy days of August.Once I got the correct cast, I was fine. It feels pretty good now. The only time I it bothers me at all is after I’ve done too much yardwork.

    • Samuel Antley permalink

      Hang in there Barbara. It’s just over two weeks it will get better. The PRC is some major stuff and things need to find there new places in your wrist. Good people here, ask questions, vent, shout, complain, or what ever you need. We have been there.
      Good luck

    • Melissa permalink

      When that cast comes off.. I am almost 1 year and the best I have been.. very little discomfort only when I catch the hand on something bending it back.. I can ride my Harley Davidson Deluxe.. I’m so thankful I had it done, give it time.. I was doubtful myself.

  29. Gary Dorough permalink

    I’was 56 years old when I had my PRC done. I’m a Male – very athletic my entire life…and continue to be. Had recurring injuries to right wrist couple years in a row. Left little to fix other than removal of the PR. Immediate results were awful. Pain…excruciating for weeks after the numbing block wore off. Continued pain as I tried to use the right arm/hand after 8 weeks. Pain subsided for about 8 years. NOW, at 66 years old…the right wrist/hands and ligaments to the fingers are in constant pain with use. Whether heavy lifting or light hammering, playing tennis…results are pretty much the same. Advil helps. Aleve sometimes helps. Rest and ice seem to work as well.
    I’ve adjusted my life to accept I no longer can keep up with heavy lifting or swinging a sledge hammer in my yard. Cutting firewood…NOPE. Range of motion is very limited, but if I rest and don’t overuse the right hand…It is very tolerable.

    • Amber Applegate permalink

      Have you consulted with your surgeon on a full fusion? No more pain and you will have more strength.

    • Diane permalink

      Thank you for sharing your story. I feel your pain, truly. In my 71st year, wearing splints nearly 24/7, I am not looking forward to the surgery and may decide not to. There are moments when the arthritic carpals screech in painful position but with massage and breath work, the twisting bones and pain will pass. Tension from the hands are ok, it’s the functional twisting that hurts so bad. From your message, surgery recovery is long and painful. Maybe even more painful than what I’m experiencing. My best wishes, Diane

  30. Samuel Antley permalink

    Debbie how is it for you on the motorcycle after a while holding the handle bars and then have to reach for the levers? I found changing my gloves to a pair with jell cut the vibration and that helped a lot.

  31. Melissa permalink

    I am 8 months out, and for most activities I am pain free, but when I ride my motorcycle, chores like yard work, cleaning house/car I can only do these pain free wearing a carpal tunnel brace. I feel there is a lot of movement or more healing to settle in place. I have severe pain after typing and using mouse. Does anyone know of any light support braces. I often use sports Cobain to hold the wrist slightly moving. I pray this goes away after time, and fear my loss if I have to have a fusion.

    • Samuel Antley permalink

      I had good luck with the simple ACE tube type brace when I needed something light. Wish I could send you a couple. I have a drawer half full of braces. Luckily I have not worn one since the PRC a year ago. How are you doing on the bike? What wrist? Mine is the right. I just compensate with the elbow and shoulder. Looking for a throttle lock though.

      • Melissa permalink

        I have 2 braces, one with a bar, and one with a gel padding in the palm.. but what I need is like a neoprene sleeve.. very light.. I’m hopeful it will calm down soon., I am far advanced than Physical Therapy/and the Surgeon thought.. it just may be my final results.. I heal fast for the most part.. it just seems a little loose..
        It was my right hand, throttle of course. But the brace helps.. to add I also have a fusion C5/C6, which could be part of the hand pain -arm neck with weakness.
        I refuse to give up my bike riding. I know when it’s a not a riding day. Still searching for a easy application brace..

      • Diane Luchild permalink

        Great to follow your comments. I am empathic and feel your pain. You’re all mostly younger than I am, at 70 years. Left wrist hurts like crazy, ligaments torn and proximal row carpals are arthritic and rotatingly painful. When wearing a splint, it screams only periodically. At the moment, am able to use this keyboard without pain and without splints. I’m believing I should wait before having surgery, until pain gets worse. Any opinions?

        Diane

        >

      • Samuel Antley permalink

        Diane, I can only say the pain SUX! I’m a farmer and must work with my hands 24/7/365. I lived several years on the strongest Hydrocodine they would give me. I also trained myself with meditation to just block out the pain and I carried on. After the PRC without the pain it was amazing how clear my head became when I did spend all the energy fighting the pain. This is why I say have the PRC if that doesn’t work fuse the wrist. Any loss of motion will not be as debilitating as living with that level of pain. The stress and headaches will go away. You can adapt the loss of motion.

    • Debbie permalink

      I also did quite a bit of typing after my PRC. I had always had one of those high quality keyboard pads that allowed my wrist some rest and support. I found the majority of pain I had while working came from my mouse and using a pen. My hand therapist recommended an extra large ergonomic mouse and a fat pen. I worked for The Commonwealth of PA and they were more than happy to accommodate the mouse request but I did buy one for home. They aren’t expensive and well worth the money in my opinion. My hand therapist gave me one of their fatter pens and it definitely helped. I then used the Coban sports tape and wrapped the tip of my own pen until my desired thickness and it worked perfectly. The coban tape actually made it a little cushiony if that makes any sense. These are just some minor changes that might help and worth a try. Good Luck!

  32. Samuel Antley permalink

    PRC May 2017. Best thing I ever did. Heaven sent. I had a total collapse so a lot of pain and little use of right hand. Started using wrist about three weeks after surgery. Now I can do everything except fire a pistol right handed. I’m a farmer and motorcycle ride so a use the wrist heavily. I’m back doing everything I want.

  33. Gary permalink

    I must have had a great Dr. I was in a cast for five weeks. Eight days later I was back riding my motorcycle. One year later still have nerve issues, tingling of fingers. Wow, what a difference. Took two OxyContin after surgery and then on too 800 ibuprofen for four to five days. I understand that each case is different, but mine was great.

  34. Sorry for the uber long post above; I just remembered that this thread was about PRCs, not Kienbock’s disease. What I said still stands though – when done well and by a good surgeon, the PRC can ben quite effective and result in a pain-free wrist once rehabilitation is complete. The rehab is difficult, really difficult, but that could just be because my wrist was in a terrible state. In the end though, having the PRC is not likely going to be much of a choice. If you need it, you need it!

    • Stephen Woodward permalink

      Totally agree with you 12 months on I’m pain free and lost a bitt off streigh and movement but so happy.

  35. Kyle permalink

    Hi all. I haven’t had the time to read through everyone’s comments, but I would imagine there are some mixed reviews on the PRC. Wanted to throw an encouraging word in for anyone that is staring down the barrel of this surgery. I know when I was in that position, I was looking for any positive info I could find. I am 29 currently and about 1 year and 7 months post PRC. I have raced dirtbikes since I was 5 and still do. Prior to surgery, I suffered a complete lunate dislocation that went undiagnosed/misdiagnosed for 5 weeks. My lunate died, other bones shifted, lost much of my grip strength, was having numbness from the lunate jabbing into my median nerve, and the rest is history. My wrist is nowhere near perfect (pre-injury), and I would not try to convince someone that it will be; however, it is functional. Most definitely much better than the injured version I was dealing with before. Once I accepted that I wasn’t going to have the wrist I once had, and decided I wasn’t going to let that keep me from doing what I wanted to do, I have had pretty good luck with it. Movement is decent and strength in the wrist is good. My hand/grip still gets fatigued in long/rough races. My advice is, decide what you want to do, do the physical therapy, keep working on it, and do what you can. If you have a good surgeon, a PRC isn’t the end of activity by any means, but it will be an alteration that will take some hard work and determination to deal with, but you can do it! Here is a helmet cam video of an extreme off-road race I did 1 year and 3 months post-op. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSauSNu29EU

  36. I don’t regret the PRC. Just spent the whole day riding and plan to tomorrow as well before the snow starts.

  37. Tami permalink

    Ok, I can honestly say I am freaking out a bit. I fell off a ladder and broke my wrist almost 2 years ago. I am still in pain, I had a surgery last Dec they had to cut off the new bon, re-break the old break and push it back down and put in 2 screws. Still in severe pain and have very limited movement if any. Now they are saying my only options are fuse, which I do not want to do because of work and personal reasons or PRC. But they are saying I will only be out of work for 5 days and that I should get rid of most of my pain and get movement back. I am almost thinking, after reading this, I suffer until I can’t anymore and just go with the fusion, hopefully in 10 15 years. I am not sure I want to do the PRC this kink of scares me.

    • Amber Applegate permalink

      Save yourself the pain and the mental stress. Get the fusion. You can go back in threads and read my horror stories and three surgeries. I suffered for two long painful years because I refused to have my hand fused, that was after the damn PRC! I finally couldn’t take the pain and as importantly the lack of strength to even lift my kayak up. I got the fusion and instant relief. I m a very active woman, I don’t even notice my hand is fused. My strength came back almost as soon as I got the fusion, absolutely no pain even right after surgery. I can lug my big hard shell kayak everywhere, shoot skeet, hike in the mountains. Get the fusion and be done with it. I do not recommend a PRC! Been there done that suffered mightily.

      • Corey pitman permalink

        So, after having the PRC , if it doesn’t help, you can get this “fusion” you speak of? I’m a week out of PRC surgery. Just wondering because all these stories are scaring me.

      • Amber Applegate permalink

        Corey, how the PRC affects your recovery or constant pain is how much cartilage and arthritis you currently have. I had a lot of arthritis and I had a great loss of cartilage. Had either of the first surgeons taken the time to explain this to me I would have had a better understanding of how the PRC was going to affect me and I would have taken the fusion. If you don’t have those conditions now you most likely will do fine with the PRC. However, age will also be factored in. Any surgery on the bones can render most folks as they age to get arthritis which causes loss of cartilage. If that happens then you might still need a fusion down the road. For now do your PT, keep a good positive attitude and enjoy your life. If a fusion is in your future just know it isn’t the end of your life or activities. Chronologically I would be considered an old bag. Mentally and physically I m still in my thirties. Eat healthy, stay active, keep your mind sharp. Life is good even with three hand surgeries and fifteen other surgeries as a result of my living on the edge ways. I ve just last week made plans to go paragliding off of world famous Woodrat Mountain next spring. Live life to the fullest, go for the gusto and never give up.

      • L Trigwell permalink

        Hi Amber, read all these posts feeling more and more despondent and then read yours and feel a sliver of hope. I am 59 going on 39, had PRC early June 2018, pain is gone but OMG can hardly do ANYTHING! Am doing PT each week with a therapist plus stuff at home on my own, but still can’t flatten my hand, hold it straight (it skews to the right, making me hand even less functional). I am right handed and of course this is my right hand. Am currently on steroids to try and reduce inflammation and get things moving a bit, plus wearing a brace (again!) to try and correct the posture of the hand. Very frustrating! I am a positive person generally but am starting to feel scared that there may be many things I can;t ever do again – ride a bike, paddle a kayak etc – at the moment, hanging out washing and peeling veges would help! I am planning things all the time as I refuse to let these sucky op dictate my life!

        I didn’t do much research prior to the op, the pain was making me insane, the option of it going I grabbed at – wish I knew more beforehand.

        Glad to have found this forum – I am in New Zealand.

      • Samuel Antley permalink

        @ L Trigwell – Do I understand you had the PRC in June? That is only a little over 3 months. All the tendons and things need to tighten up and take up the space from the missing bones. I remember being able to shake my arm and my hand would rattle because it was not tightly attached. Took time for everything to go into place. Try to give it some time, you did say the pain was gone. Good luck making a new joint. Best wishes and vent all you need.

  38. Christina permalink

    I’m 26 and 7.5 months post surgery. I had the surgery due to Kienbocks decease and to help with the pain I dealt with for 11 years. My wrist has recently had an increase in pain. I am also 9 weeks pregnant and am wondering whether this might be the cause of the wrist pain. Has anybody gotten pregnant after having the procedure and noticed a difference in how your wrist was doing?

  39. I am 52 yr old female, who was stage 5 Kienbochs Disease. Thought having surgery would be better than suffering with pain and loss of wrist use. I am 3 weeks post op, casted for 2 more weeks. I can move fingers well, but limited on uses. I am a administrative medical Receptionist, and my ortho approved me to return but with pain and medication I extended for another week., I can’t use my right hand for anything, dressing, hair ect.. . Although my co workers are afraid I am pushing myself.. I’m not really ready, with pain.. what is the out of work time frame for people that has had PRC? I have a high tolerance but this pain burns, aches, and travels around hand.. Any input would be helpful.. excuse Text it’s being done with lefty..

    • Debbie permalink

      Hi Melissa, I had my PRC 9 years ago and I too am good with pain. I have to say this was the longest pain I ever experienced. My surgery was due to an injury. I was off work for 8 weeks. It was rough going back even after that long time off. I was an accounting assistant and worked through it but couldn’t imagine going back any sooner. I had never taken off that long (with the exception of child birth) from work in the past so I was sure I could return sooner. Unfortunately I could do nothing with my right (dominant) hand so returning was not an option. We did not have a light duty policy so I had to return to full duty when I did return. I say listen to your body as you are the only one who knows if you’re ready. Some people heal quicker and I feel it took forever for me. And after 9 years I can say I am 90% of the time pain free! I know when I have overdone it but I just give it a rest and it’s back to normal. I did get a very wide mouse to use at work and used very fat pens. This helped me because I get pain when holding a normal size pen for any length of time. My PT recommended this. My employer purchased the mouse! This should be accommodated thru the ADA policy if you have any issues. I used coban tape and wrapped the tip (about an inch and a half) of the pen with many wraps until it was the thickness I liked. Pens were very comfortable to use and you also knew nobody would take it! Lol good luck with your re cooperating and return to work! This is coming from an extremely impatient person, it will improve but can take months for it to be pain free. It took me 15 months before I can say I was completely pain free.

      • Thanks so much for the great information, I certainly know to listen to my body, but I too push through pain.. I also wonder had I not have such a high tolerance I wouldn’t be a stage 5 when diagnosed.. I experience burning, prickly feeling on the back of my hand.. and the base of thumb dull throbbing aching pain on the outside wrist bone, yet still casted.. I find elevation and ice have been so helpful. That’s what my days consists of.. I will give it a try Monday, see how it goes.. thank for your support.. Melissa

    • Megan permalink

      I was off work for a full 8 weeks and I’m so glad I was! My physical therapy helped quite a bit too which probably helped with my return to work. I type a lot and was in quite a bit of pain once returning to work. I was taking a lot of ibuprofen when I returned to work and this went on for weeks. I had my surgery March 28th, so a little over 4 months post op and I have to admit that I still have a lot of pain some days. My doc gave me a steroid shot in the joint to help with the pain and some days I think it helped and other I don’t. My recommendations are if you can take more time from work then do so because you don’t realize how much typing used your wrist until you just have surgery on it! Good luck!

  40. Bev permalink

    I’m a 70 yr old patient. I had surgery in January 2017. The first therapy I had was not from a hand therapist. A month ago I started therapy with a hand therapist but my middle finger is still swollen. This past week I used a personally made splint, but it is too big and keeps falling off. I can’t really see any change in the swelling. I know everyone heals at a different rate, but I would really like to see some improvement. I will say the pain now is different from the pain before the surgery. My range of motion has improved somewhat and if the swelling would go down, I’d be satisfied. My therapist doesn’t think it’s necessary to be in touch with my doctor but I’m not so sure about that.

    • TomM permalink

      I am 74 and had the surgery 2-1/2 weeks ago along with a cmc arthroplasty on my thumb. Pain is slowly easing. I don’t use opiod pain meds. So how are you doing now?

  41. Dillon Pyron permalink

    I’m 9 years post FOOSH (spent my entire vacation on Maui in bilateral casts). My wrists have hurt on and off for about five years but my right went downhill late last year. I finally went to see my orthopedist who gave me a steroid shot. Which lasted four weeks instead of four months.

    Upshot is the surgeon has said that I am the “textbook candidate”. Sixty (happy 61st birthday two days earlier) and the surfaces are still in good shape.

    My surgery is set for July 7. Update later.

  42. Gina Leffert Paige permalink

    I also had stage 4 avascular necrosis due to Kienbocks. My wrist was virtually frozen. I had a PRC, removal of my radial styloid and shortening of my radius. My ortho used a nerve block before my surgery, and I never had any pain. Now while my wrist get stiff, I am pain free and have recovered a large amount of movement. My surgery was 5 months ago now, and I developed dupuytrens contractures but I am so glad I had the surgery.

  43. Jennifer Tombow permalink

    . I am 41 years old had proximal row carpectomy surgery a week ago. I have 4 Kids and had a carpal tunnel surgery on both wrists at the same time 7 weeks ago had no pain at all from that.never expected this surgery to be so painful I can’t even believe the amount of pain I almost would rather go through childbirth. I had stage 4 vascular necrosis and had not been able to move my wrist for about six months I go to the doctor tomorrow for my post-op appointment praying all is healing the way it’s supposed to be.

  44. Lisa M permalink

    I had my PRC about 6 years ago, when i was 41. It was after a failed arterial bone graft (some call it a vascular bone graft). I thought the surgery was pretty easy compared to some other surgeries I’ve had. I did P.T./O.T. (never thought trying to pick up small beans could be so hard). I was very pleased with the outcome as far as ROM is concerned, couldn’t tell any bones were removed but on another note, I’ve had pain in that wrist often. Just an achy pain that never really goes away. I’m very happy with my PRC, as i can do everything and would rather deal with the inconvenience of a little pain rather than forfeiting ROM. Best wishes for everyone that needs a PRC!!

  45. Stephen woodward permalink

    6 months i had it done and just getting right the worse opp ever the only thing good about this is i dont have any pain now but wrist isnt as strong and limited movement i know what you mean about the toothpaste my hand went the size of a elephants foot and black and blue hopeing to start back work next week on light duties and the lady with the children i feel sorry for you really do need help for the first 3 months hope you all get well x

  46. Megan Dalton permalink

    I am 32 years old and was diagnosed with Keinbock’s disease about a year and a half ago after experiencing pain for over three years. I would have had the PRC done sooner but I was pregnant. I just had this done yesterday and was given a nerve block for the pain. 15 hours later, I am starting to regain feeling, and it is extremely painful. I normally have a very high pain tolerance and will rarely ever take medications for pain, but this definitely requires it. I assume that the severe pain will hopefully go away within a few days but any advice is appreciated. I have a five-month-old and 23-month-old at home that I was expecting to take care of while I am off of work. As I’m laying here I am wondering how in the world I am going to change diapers and take care of babies when my hand/arm hurts this badly. I am now wondering if I should send them to the sitter for a few days while my husband is at work. Does anyone know when I should be able to resume semi-normal functions using my hand and at least be able to pick up my babies and change their diapers?

    • CarolLynn permalink

      I just had the procedure on March 22,2017. I too can tolerate pain and this is horrible pain. My fingers are not swollen but the whole wrist is sore. I ham icing constantly and keep it elevated. No idea how you would take care of children…I can’t even turn the toothpaste cap!

      I am having this “popping” or clicking but I’m not sure what it is. It was frustrating there was not much info online. I go for my checkup in a few days…hoping it’s all normal.

  47. Thats bad shit man sorry to hear that

  48. Thats brilliant wish it was me well just have to keep at it well done

  49. Shawn permalink

    I’m 48 and had injuries to both hands several years ago. Had multiple reconstructive surgeries on both. Finally went for the proximal row carpectomy on my left hand two years ago. Range of motion sucked because I didn’t have much cartilage left. I maxed at 20 degrees and had constant pain for a year. This past year the pain has decreased but still very weak. I don’t even attempt to open a door using my left hand. Using a computer is ok and carrying light bags is ok as long as the wrist is straight down towards the ground. However going to finally fuse the left wrist probably this year. Going to shoot for a joint replacement of my right wrist in about a year. Been consulting with the two primary surgeons in the US who regularly perform this procedure.

  50. Gina Leffert Paige permalink

    I am 1 weeks post PRC and have 30 degrees movement and meet all ther goals in therapy. 65 degrees is my goal and I hope to meet that soon. But my wrist is pain free. I am 47 yrs old.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

%d bloggers like this: